Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ ♪ ♪ > Well, good evening and welcome to Making It Grow.

We sure are glad that you can be with us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty, and I studied horticulture at Clemson.

It was a lot more fun than international studies.

I'm not much of a diplomat, Terasa, as you may have noticed, but, you also are a fellow Clemson person.

It's so much fun to have you here on the show with us.

> Oh, thank you.

It is my pleasure.

And I had an unusual route, I suppose, to horticulture.

But what I love about it is that I am continually learning, and our viewers push me to do that because the questions that come in, I don't always have the answers, but I know I can find them.

Amanda> Yeah, and you're so nice about answering people who ask you questions on Facebook.

Terasa> We try.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Knowing how to look things up.

The most important thing I ever learned was site, colon, edu.

Because you get educational websites, it really is the most important thing I've ever learned.

One of the librarians at Clemson told me that.

So I tell everybody that.

You don't get people who think they know a lot and don't know.

Terasa> And you can find all kinds of information out there.

Yes, that doesn't necessarily mean you should implement it.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

Anyway... Well, Brad, we're glad you walked down the street to be with us.

Cause our Sumter office is right down the street from here.

And you're teaching master gardeners and all kinds of things.

> Absolutely.

Actually, I got a class coming up, so.

Amanda> So, you have three counties.

Do you combine the master gardeners usually?

How do you do it?

Brad> I combine them all together and just have them here locally right now.

At some point, if I had a reason- Amanda> If the demand?

Brad> Yeah, if there was enough demand in one county where they really wanted one locally there, I would consider it.

Amanda> So how many people do you have in a class?

Brad> My max class size is 15.

Last class I had was 13.

This one's gonna be 15.

So, yeah.

Amanda> Good, good.

Because you want them to get to know each other.

Brad> Oh, absolutely.

You know, and that's one of the, kinda the downsides of some of these online courses that people go through, is that you don't have that sense of community and that kind of a thing.

Amanda> And I think they're more active, more likely to stay active in the association if they do know each other.

<Yeah> So, well, I'm glad that you know how to make people get along and make friends.

Brad> I'm doing my best.

[laughter] Amanda> They usually get along pretty well.

Brad> Yes they do.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, thanks.

Thanks for being here today.

And Emily Belser, who has a, you studied, you got a doctorate in something about wildlife or what?

> I did, I have a PhD in wildlife science.

<Isn't that fun?> Yeah, very fun.

So I studied whitetail deer for about six years.

Amanda> And weren't you down in Texas or someplace?

Dr.

Belser> I was down in South Texas.

So what's this screwworm gonna do?

Are we worried about it?

Dr.

Belser> I know they are definitely worried about it down there.

I know they've done some eradication efforts down there to get rid of it.

So, yeah, definitely a hot topic down there.

Amanda> So are you consulting now with people who wanna manage their property for wildlife?

Dr.

Belser> I am, I do a little bit of wildlife consulting for private landowners here in South Carolina, mainly.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Well, thank you so much for doing that.

Do you help them not manage wild hogs?

<Yeah> They are so problematic.

Dr.

Belser> Yes, they are, they are.

Amanda> But, they're here.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, Caroline Oatley, you're the Department of Plant Industry Invasive Species Program Coordinator.

So what invasive species are there that we're concerned about?

> Right now for insects, we've got Asian longhorned beetle.

Down in Charleston County, we've got spotted lanternfly, yellow-legged hornet.

And we got a few plants, some noxious weeds, cogongrass, which I believe we're gonna talk about today, and some aquatic weeds as well.

I think we're gonna get into it today.

Amanda> And I think Florida's the epicenter for most of that, isn't it?

Caroline> Sometimes, yeah.

Amanda> You know, because everything you know comes in.

Well, anyway, I think we have enough of them here, sadly.

Thank you for what you're doing.

<Thank you> I appreciate it, yeah.

Well, anyway, so we're going to have some fun things for you to learn about.

The Historic Camden Memorial Garden, which is pretty fascinating.

And winter forages, which is, you know, important because it's not like Wisconsin, where it's snow on the ground and too cold to grow anything.

Here, you can have things that are growing in the winter and the animals can eat them.

So lots of stuff for us to learn about.

Anyway, and Terasa you have now a montage of gardens that are all so beautiful rather than... cause I think so many people just love to share.

Terasa> You are correct.

I think we used to share about five "Gardens of the Week" photos at a time, and there were so many that we didn't have a chance to show.

So we've morphed that into a montage where we're able to combine more photos, so that you can see them.

And of course, if you don't get to see what is on the show, you just visit our Facebook page and you can see all of the submissions.

So let's take a look.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ The last photo today, from Cheryl Rourke was a sunflower field at the Santee Wildlife Management Area and Santee Wildlife Management Area, or WMA, is one of five, that are contained within the Francis Marion National Forest.

And these lands are able to be enjoyed by hunters but also nature lovers.

So I encourage you, if that's something you enjoy, to look into those wildlife management areas and when you might be able to visit.

And I also encourage you to share your "Gardens of the Week" photos with us.

Whenever you see us make a post that says, "Call for Gardens of the Week."

Just post your photos right there and you never know, they may show up on air.

> So you need to check about when with the wildlife management areas to be sure when they're open for what kind of activity is that how it works?

Terasa> That's right, yes.

Amanda> Okay.

I don't want to be out there walking around with a camera while it's hunting.

<Exactly> Well, thank you for telling us that.

It's good to learn about that.

Well, do you think we might be able to help someone with a problem or a question?

Terasa> I sure hope so.

That's one of our main areas of focus.

We've got a question from Teresa in Charleston who said, "I want to direct seed carrots and other vegetables in my fall garden.

What does irrigation look like for this?

I don't want to wash away the seed."

Amanda> Well, okay.

Well, goodness me, what do you think?

> Well, this time of year, it's certainly gonna be harder to get something like a small seeded crop, like carrot seed, up and out of the ground and up to a large enough size to, you know, withstand all this heat.

You know, things dry out real fast.

And if you've got sandy soil, it dries out even faster.

And so, you know, making sure that you've got a good, you know, a drip irrigation system, making sure that the moisture is always there, make sure that the soil never dries out.

Because it does not take more than a couple hours in some cases.

It just depends on your site and your conditions.

And so you might have to feel it out a little bit, but a drip irrigation system will get you that moisture.

Amanda> If you don't have drip irrigation... Brad> If you don't have drip, you know, at the same time, too, honestly, even if you have drip, you know, going through and putting in maybe some sprinklers on a timer, if you don't have time in the morning cause, you know, we all got busy lives, but you still want that garden, you can have it come on, you know, first thing in the morning, lunchtime, and then the evening.

And absolutely be out there every day checking on things and making sure that they're not drying out on you.

And so after we get to, you know, once we get those crops up a few inches at least, then we can start kind of backing off.

And so we're less worried that the root development is there.

We're less worried about things drying out so substantially.

But I will say it sounds alarming, but at the same time, it's not.

I've done it.

I've done it many times as far as just growing, planting crops in the middle of the summer, dead heat, that kind of a thing.

Amanda> So how far down in the soil?

I mean, these little teeny tiny seeds.

Brad> We're only planting a quarter inch deep, that kind of a thing.

So you really need that surface soil to be dry, or as I should say moist at all times.

You don't want it dry.

And in some cases, you know, in addition to irrigation, you can use like, a tarp or something, or maybe shade cloth, something that's gonna keep things nice and moist.

And so you're not worried so much about the evaporation.

And if you do have you use a tarp or something like that, and you have the option of something that's white on top.

I'd highly recommend it.

So you're reflecting all that heat instead of absorbing it.

So, those are things that will help you get this crop off the ground.

And, you know, as I said before, it sounds alarming, but it's really not.

I've done it successfully year after year.

You just have to pay attention.

You have to have a little extra care than you might in the spring when it's much cooler and the temperatures aren't quite so alarming.

Amanda> So if you don't have sandy soil, are there's some carrots that you can grow in some of the heavier soils?

Brad> Yeah, absolutely.

There are some very... oh, I can't, I think, Thumbelina might actually be one that's one of those that's really shallow if you got kind of a heavy clay soil.

Unfortunately, not all of us are blessed with those nice medium loamy soils that retain moisture and allow, you know, all that nice rooting depth and that kind of a thing.

But it doesn't, you know, it doesn't matter what type of soil you have.

For the most part, you should be able to make this work.

You just might have to kind of work on it a little bit and just kind of look at your conditions and make sure that things are staying moist.

Amanda> So does mulching help?

Brad> Once you get the crop up, yes, absolutely.

But you need to make sure that you're not planting things too deep.

So if you've gotten down a quarter inch and then you're putting mulch on top of- Amanda> No, no, no, I meant just like off the edge.

Brad> Oh, yeah, absolutely.

That helps too.

Because, you know, if you're getting evaporation up and down the row, you know, in between the rows, that's not helping matters either, so.

Amanda> Alright, well, how about that.

Thumbelina, sounds fun.

Terasa?

Terasa> Let's try to help Bill, who reached out from Darlington.

He said, There's an overgrown field behind my yard in Darlington County.

I was getting frustrated that the neighbors weren't mowing it, but a few days ago, I heard the call of a bobwhite quail.

Is this the type of habitat they need?

Amanda> Goodness!

Mow, mow, mow.

You know not everything needs to be mowed all the time.

Does it?

> That's right, yeah.

Man, how lucky is he?

To me, there's very few other calls or sounds better than a quail.

So he's very lucky there.

But yeah, absolutely, quail are what we call an early successional species.

So they prefer habitats that have been recently disturbed, such as an old field.

You know, a lot of those plants that are probably growing there are probably providing cover and probably food that they're able to take advantage of.

Amanda> I've heard that some of the bunch grasses, they like to hop in there to hide from things.

Dr.

Belser> They do, yeah.

And they'll nest in those bunch grasses as well, you know, especially our native bunch grasses.

So one thing to look out for, though, is in those old fields is any kind of mat-forming grasses that probably aren't native.

So if it's a grass that you might find in your lawn it's probably not the best kind of grass for quail.

Amanda> So do you recommend that people try to remove those if they can?

Dr.

Belser> If they can, yeah.

And sometimes, you know, when I work with landowners who wanna manage for wildlife or quail or those early successional species, sometimes if they have a field on their property and they think they want to do something with it, what I recommend is just maintain it as an early successional habitat.

So maybe spot spray some of the plants that you don't want.

If you get any invasives popping up, you know, take care of those and then just knock it back every now and then with the prescribed burn or something that's gonna keep it as an early successional habitat.

Amanda> Okay, okay.

So what are some of the grasses that you wouldn't want in there that you might want to remove?

Caroline> Great question.

Definitely want to be on the lookout for cogongrass, noxious weeds, just like cogongrass or itchgrass.

We also have purple loosestrife and while it flowers a beautiful purple flower, I don't think we want it in our state.

Amanda> Okay, okay.

Thanks so much.

Oh, how about the dogs?

Dr.

Belser> Oh, yeah.

So we were talking earlier about flushing quail with a dog.

Which, you know, when you hunt quail, you can send in dogs.

Yeah, you can have a dog that points, and it's gonna show you where the quail are.

And then you can have another dog, a flushing dog that's gonna go in and flush the quail out.

And I have a flushing dog.

He's a Cocker Spaniel, but he is fat and jobless.

He does not do a very good job.

[laughter] Amanda> Well, you know, my dog, Blue, automatically stands on three legs and points sometimes.

I guess that's just inherited in them sometimes.

Dr.

Belser> Yeah, it's a natural instinct that a lot of breeders will breed for that.

Amanda> It's fun to see.

<It is fun> I love to see it.

Dr.

Belser> It's so much fun to see a working dog in the field.

<What's your dog's name?> He's Winston.

Amanda> Winston?

<Yes> Cause he's fat and lazy.

Dr.

Belser> Yes, and he's an English Cocker Spaniel.

So I felt like he needed a proper English name.

Amanda> Well, and Blue's father was an English Cocker Spaniel.

So how about that?

Yeah, yeah, a pretty nice dog.

Okay, that's a lot of fun, isn't it?

<It is> Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Well, Terasa.

Terasa> Well, Caroline, with talking about invasive species, I believe she has a sample of an invasive insect, perhaps to talk about that is rather beautiful to look at, but not one we want here in our state.

Caroline> Yes.

So I have a few things to show today.

Let me take them out first.

So today we're going to talk about spotted lanternfly.

We have a lifecycle right here.

Amanda> Oh it is pretty.

Caroline> Yes.

So, when people see this insect, they usually think it's a butterfly.

But it's actually a plant hopper, so it's flying abilities aren't that great.

It kind of just hops from leaf to leaf.

But this is an incredibly invasive insect.

So what we have here is a life cycle.

So you can see all of the instar phases, what we call them.

So when they're juvenile, they first go to their first instar which is over here on the left.

Amanda> Oh, that's little.

Caroline> Yes, so they're about the size of a tick.

And since they're so small, you can't really tell, but it's a black body with teeny tiny white speckles.

Then they molt into their second instar- Amanda> Are they laid in a group or separated?

Caroline> So they are laid in these big egg masses.

We have one up here.

And you can kind of see, you know, <Thank you> 10-20.

So, after their second instar phase where they're black and their white spots are becoming more prominent, they go into their third instar which is they relatively just get a little bit bigger.

Their fourth instar phase, which is what we're seeing right now, is this very beautiful, red specimen that we have.

It's red, black, with white spots.

And then we're also seeing adults right now.

And these are what adults look like.

You know, they have this reddish color to their wings, they have a great pattern, but usually when they're on the trees, they really blend in.

Because they don't have their wings out so much.

We're seeing these in Greenville and Seneca.

We're asking people, if you do think you've seen spotted lanternfly, to report to us.

And we have a public reporting tool that you can use on our website.

It's Clemson.edu/SLF.

Amanda> So what damage do they do?

Caroline> So that is a great question.

Spotted lanternfly will go and suck the sap off trees.

They'll put their mouth pieces into the bark and they'll secrete this liquid called honeydew.

And this honeydew will fall down onto the plants below and onto the leaves of that same tree.

And it creates this black, sooty mold.

<Sure, yeah> That black, sooty mold kind of covers everything and then the plants can't photosynthesize.

So, we're asking people to keep a lookout.

We also have here- Amanda> So they actually, they go to the bark and they can suck?

<Mhm> That tiny little thing?

That's amazing.

Caroline> But because they have egg masses like these, there are probably about 200 eggs on this just one little strip of bark.

Amanda> Wow!

Caroline> So we're asking people to be on the lookout and to not transport firewood because this is what it could look like on the inside.

Amanda> So many things have been moved around.

But you know, just when you get to some place get something that's been harvested locally.

<Correct> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's not that expensive.

Yeah, please don't be carrying it around.

<Yes> Terasa> You know, when we think about the movement of invasive species, we often think of a movement from south to north.

But I think this one, it does not follow that pattern.

I feel like Pennsylvania has had before us.

So it's going in the opposite direction that we might normally think about.

Amanda> Where it is from?

Caroline> This specific invasive is from Asia.

Amanda> Oh, okay.

But showed up in Pennsylvania?

Caroline> Yes, it first showed up in Pennsylvania.

Amanda> Who knows?

Caroline> Yeah, yeah.

10, 15 years later, now it's all the way down to South Carolina.

Amanda> Okay.

Okay, well, we'll try to keep an eye out and call y'all if we see it.

> Yes, please report to our reporting tool.

Amanda> Okay, okay.

Alright.

Well, the Historic Camden Memorial Garden is pretty fascinating.

An interesting story, and let's go learn about it.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> I'm in Camden, South Carolina, talking with Stacey Ferguson, and she's the Deputy Director of Historic Camden.

Thanks for letting us come out today.

> Thanks for coming.

Amanda> And we're here particularly to see a garden that was built in remembrance of some people that you moved in from the battlefield.

So let's talk about how that happened.

Stacey> Yes, absolutely.

So back in 2021, we exhumed 14 soldiers from our battlefield.

These soldiers were at risk from erosion and looters.

And so we wanted to protect them better.

Amanda> How'd you know these people were there?

Stacey> Well, they were buried after the battle, close to where they fell, and they were buried in their uniforms with some of their gear.

So there were buttons, there were musket balls, and some other different things that would show up on a metal detector.

And that's how we found them.

Amanda> And so you had a very dignified exhumation, I believe.

Stacey> We gave them the utmost care as they were being exhumed.

Myself as a veteran, and the other veterans were the ones that were entrusted with carrying the remains to the vehicle that went back to the coroner's office.

And we also got, at the coroner's office we got to help put them in the coffins and prepare them for burial.

And then they came back here to Camden, and we gave them a soldier's farewell, as they deserved.

Amanda> Aw, that's mighty sweet, because Camden was important during the revolution.

Stacey> It absolutely was.

Camden was the gateway to the Backcountry.

It was a very important town.

It was the first inland town in South Carolina.

So when Charleston fell to the British, they had their eyes on Camden next.

And they occupied Camden from June 1780 to May 1781.

And it was during that time that the battle happened in August.

Amanda> So where are they buried here in town?

Stacey> So they are buried at the Old Presbyterian Burying Ground, which is now part of Quaker Cemetery.

They're buried with people that lived and died at that same time in our history.

They have a beautiful place to rest.

Under the shade of the trees and where they'll be protected in perpetuity.

Amanda> And I think y'all also decided to do something that was really lovely and have a garden that's kind of in tribute to them.

Stacey> Absolutely.

So we found that a lot of our visitors really have connected with the story of these soldiers.

And, you know, when we look at the history of the revolution, we think of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and all these founding fathers.

And what they did was really important, but we could not have won the war were it not for the sacrifices that these soldiers made.

And we've even recently been able to determine the name of one of the soldiers buried over there.

His name is Private John Pumphrey from Maryland, and he was one of the soldiers that was buried on the battlefield.

And so now we're telling his story.

Amanda> So I believe that this lovely garden that y'all have, it's a nice place for people to go and just kind of reflect on the sacrifices that peoples made.

Stacy> Yes, absolutely.

It is a beautiful plot of land, and I can think of no better place to spend time with your thoughts or maybe pray about the soldiers and thank them for their sacrifices.

Amanda> If you're over here in Camden, y'all have a lot of stuff right around here at the battlefield.

What else should we be sure to check out?

Stacey> We do have a lot.

So, the main part of the property here in Camden sits on the original townsite of Camden when it was first founded.

We have a lot of historic buildings here that we interpret and care for.

We've got the Kershaw-Cornwallis House, which was used by the British as their headquarters for the year, that almost year that they were here.

We have a readout, which is an earthen fort, and we have a lot of events going on all throughout the year.

Amanda> I think sometimes you or one of your children or other volunteers get to fire off cannons, are they loud?

Stacey> They are loud.

You will not miss it if you're anywhere within a quarter mile of this place.

Amanda> I want to thank everybody here for doing this and bringing this part of American history that helped us to be independent, to life.

Thanks so much.

Stacey> Thanks for stopping by.

♪ ♪ [cannon firing] ♪ Amanda> Now I'm at the Memorial Garden and talking to Howard Wallace, who installed this.

And I believe that you were asked to do this by a garden club here.

> Right, it was a collaboration with the Camden Garden Club and Historic Camden.

And they were fantastic to work with, in particular Karen Brown and Ainsley Browning.

And they helped us flesh out a lot of ideas and they were just wonderful.

And they maintain it, they maintain it.

<That's great> They come out and weed this garden, look at it.

It's fantastic.

Amanda> So, can we start with the trees?

Let's talk about this one, cause it's a fairly unusual tree to see.

Howard> We've got several distinctive trees.

That's a Kentucky coffee tree and we've got arrowwood viburnums, and a lot of distinctive plants that are native or historic.

One in particular, and that's sort of the focal point of our garden is an American elm.

And we chose that, because of the Liberty tree, that was in Boston, that the Sons of Liberty would assemble under the Liberty tree to talk about issues of interest at the time and- Amanda> Being mad at the king.

Howard> Right, exactly.

In particular it was the Stamp Act, but that's a longer story.

It really came a symbol of the resistance.

And the British thought that to get rid of the resistance, they would get rid of the tree.

And that was like, so they cut it down and that- Amanda> Everybody wanted to plant them.

Howard> Right.

And then it was a... and they think that that's really the spark that inspired the revolution.

Amanda> Well, how big is this tree gonna be?

What's it gonna look like?

Howard> Well, it's an American elm, you know, 50 to 60 feet tall.

It could be stately.

The beauty of an American elm is that it grows, it's vase-shaped, so it goes up in and then out.

So it's a great street tree.

That particular variety is called a Princeton elm.

<Okay> And it's disease resistant.

And it was just we couldn't think of a more fitting focal point tree.

We really wanted a tree to be the center of this garden not a fountain, or a statue, or whatever.

Amanda> So what do you have under the elm?

Howard> That is an Inkberry, which is, again, it's a native plant.

It's a cultivar called Strongbox.

And, we're real pleased with that one.

It's full to the ground.

Some other plants, you know, native to our county is this Clethra that we have in the middle of all the beds, the common name is summersweet, it's a great pollinator.

The boxwood that we chose was called, cultivar called Independence.

It's blight resistant, very easy to manage and adaptable, sun or shade.

Pretty bulletproof.

Amanda> What a fun name that you found that one.

Howard> Yeah, I know, Independence I know everything, all the stars just aligned.

As we were putting this together and then plants that deer won't eat, like, Spiraeas and Abelia.

That's one too that we've had a lot of success with.

And then Leucothoe axillaris, Yarrow, which is somewhat evergreen.

It's an evergreen perennial, And catmint, <Yeah!> that blooms blue.

And some buddleias.

As a rule of thumb, if you grab the foliage of a plant and you crush it and there's a scent on your hand, chances are, deer won't eat it.

<Alright> So that's a good rule of thumb.

Amanda> Okay, and have you had pretty good luck?

Howard> Yeah, not 100 percent, but primarily.

And the deer taught us, you know, some lessons.

Some plants they say are resistant, they aren't as resistant.

So it's been quite a laboratory.

Amanda> And you have irrigation?

Howard> Yes.

Yes.

<Wonderful!> Drip irrigation.

<Okay> But there'll be less and less of that as- Amanda> As they mature.

Howard> As everything matures.

Amanda> Okay, well, I think this is just lovely for people who come and want to remember all the people who sacrificed for us to have freedom.

And this is a very lovely tribute.

Howard> It's been very well received, frequently visited.

And I think we captured what we were trying to do, and we were just honored to be a part of it.

Amanda> Well, thank you so much.

♪ Amanda> You know, it was 250 years ago that they had the Battle of Camden.

That's pretty interesting, isn't it?

Yeah.

And, we loved being over there.

And they shoot cannons off and they wear traditional clothes.

If you haven't been, it's a wonderful thing to take your kids to.

There's just so much to see and learn there.

And the cannons are really fun.

They make a lot of noise, if that's fair to say.

Hats, hats, hats.

So... Mountain mint, which is Pycnanthemum and that's just a fun thing to say, Pycnanthemum.

Anyway, doesn't have to grow in the mountains and it's fragrant.

And, I mean, it just is a magnet for pollinators.

I've never seen anything like it.

And then, you know, coneflower, the yellow one, and then, zinnias, you know, if you get the zinnias that have an open center, they have lots of nourishment for pollinators.

So if you go to order a pack of zinnia seeds, be sure that you have one that's going to be like this and it'd be great fun to go out there and see everyone who's enjoying all that wonderful stuff.

And they're pretty in a vase.

They're fun to cut.

Terasa> They make great cut flowers.

Amanda> Don't you think so?

They really are a lot of fun.

So even though it's not native, it is an annual.

They are great fun to have, I think.

Always good to plant zinnias, don't you think?

They just cheer you up!

Terasa> They're pretty good self-saving too, if you have them in your garden, you're likely to keep having them.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah that's true.

They are pretty good at that.

Okay.

Well, Terasa.

Terasa> Let's see what we've got in the queue.

We've got a question from Brenda, here in Sumter, who would like to know, "What can I plant to replace my dying boxwoods?"

Amanda> Gosh.

And boxwoods have a lot of problems right now.

There is this and that, and this and that, and this and that.

Are there some things that might be a good substitute.

> Well, actually, I do have a favorite.

<Do you?> Yes, I do.

Yaupon holly.

<Yes> Especially the dwarf one.

Amanda> I'm glad you said that.

> Yeah.

Well, even the large, upright ones.

It kind of depends on what you want it for.

You know, if you want that small, mounding, compact shrub, that kind of a thing.

It's native.

It does well in our area.

You can use it the same way that you use boxwoods.

You can prune them into geometric shapes.

And they hedge really well.

And so it's one of my favorites.

And honestly, it's also an edible ornamental.

You can make tea out of the leaves, so.

Amanda> Well, and one thing I like about it is that if you don't prune it and just let it take its natural shape, it has a beautiful natural shape, and then you don't have to be out there pruning it every whip stitch, to me.

Brad> Absolutely.

And even the, the standard version, which gets quite a bit taller, you know, you can make topiary out of them too, and so you can prune them in various ways or enjoy the natural shape that they have.

Amanda> And I don't think it has any problems, particularly, does it?

Brad> Not in particular, I will say after a while, because of the dwarf ones and how dense they can be, that can lead to, you know, a moisture retention where you don't want it and that kind of a thing.

And so, just know that over time, you may get a few problems with say some fungal issues and that kind of a thing.

Amanda> But, you could go in with your clippers and just thin it on the inside and not sculpt the outside, couldn't you?

Brad> Yeah, absolutely.

Opening up those plants can be very useful as far as just trying to get some air movement through them.

Because we're so humid here, we don't need to make things worse for ourselves.

<Okay> Amanda> Yeah, it's a little bit different down here.

Brad> Yep, absolutely.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, thank you for telling us that.

I appreciate it.

Terasa?

Terasa> Well, earlier, we had that question about quail habitat, and I think Emily brought a plant that is related.

Dr.

Belser> I did, I brought in woolly croton.

And so this is a native species, and it can grow, as you can see, pretty tall.

So three, four feet tall, not all of them get this tall.

Amanda> A perennial?

Dr.

Belser> So this particular one is an annual.

There are some species of croton that are perennial.

<Okay> This particular one is an annual and it's really hairy.

So it's got dense hairs all over it.

And then the leaves are, they're lanceolate in shape.

So it's a little curled up right now.

But it's more heart-shaped at the bottom leaves- Amanda> Well, why is this is good for quail?

Dr.

Belser> So quail will eat the seeds.

And the seeds that it produces are also really important for doves as well.

<Oh!> And if you look at the way that it grows, if you stand it up tall, there's plenty of room down here.

And quail, especially the chicks, have really tiny little legs and so this provides them room to run around.

And then if you look at it from the top, it can provide protection from predators.

So you have a bushy top where it's more cover from overhead.

Amanda> That's wonderful!

Boy, I would never have thought of all that.

That's really fun.

Can I?

And can you get seeds and can people put them out?

Dr.

Belser> You can, I think you can order seeds.

Amanda> I mean, do you advise your people?

Dr.

Belser> I haven't ever done it, but I'm sure it is possible.

And then the flowers have both male and female parts on it.

So it's a monoecious plant.

So they might, do they ever seed down a little bit and come back the next year?

Dr.

Belser> They do, yeah.

And it responds pretty well to disturbance.

And you can find it growing pretty often in areas that have been recently disturbed, like roadsides.

I pulled this one from the road today, this morning.

Amanda> It smells good.

Dr.

Belser> It does.

And, it's actually, so this plant is toxic to livestock, so it doesn't make a great forage for deer.

But it can be valuable to some of our bird species.

Amanda> Well, the deer probably have enough sense not to eat it, I'm guessing.

Dr.

Belser> Yeah, they can eat a little bit of it, but it's not the best.

Amanda> Do they naturally know what to eat and what not to eat, sometimes?

Dr.

Belser> Sometimes it's natural, a natural instinct.

So they could be picking up maybe on some of the scent.

Some of it's learned.

So a learned behavior.

If they eat something and it makes them not feel good, they won't eat it again.

And some of it's learning from their moms.

<Sure> As they're growing and they see their mom eating certain things.

Amanda> Eat your peas.

[laughter] Dr.

Belser> That's right.

But maybe not so much croton.

Amanda> But don't eat your chocolate cake before dessert.

Okay.

Alright.

Well, I'm so glad you told us about that.

And I just love the idea that it gives them some cover from above, because, I mean, anything would love to come down and pick off one of those little quail and yum yum yum, eat it up.

> Yeah, so it provides not only a little bit of food but some structure and cover as well.

Amanda> Well, thank you so much for telling us about that.

Woolly croton, that's fun.

<Woolly croton> Okay.

All righty, Terasa?

Terasa> Next up- Amanda> I'll put this down here.

Terasa> This one comes in from Kathy in Surfside Beach.

And she would like to know, "What should I do if I think I have cogongrass in my yard?"

Amanda> I remember when they first started telling us about that, and it sounds like a bad one.

> Yes.

So, for any of the viewers out there, I actually brought a mounted cogongrass.

So cogongrass is a noxious weed.

And you can find it on the side of the road or in garden beds.

And if you find cogongrass, report it to us immediately and do not move it.

Amanda> Now, that flower head looks, you know, pretty, but I think it comes in clumps so people are attracted to it.

Is that correct?

It's showy?

Caroline> Yes, yes.

So, in the springtime, this specific weed will, the seed head, which is what we're seeing here, will come out, not necessarily bloom or flower.

But I'm not sure if you can see there's some brown pieces sticking up, and those are the seeds, and it kind of looks like hair.

It's not really like fluffy.

I sometimes tell people it's like if I stuck my head out of a moving car, out the window and my hair just goes crazy.

That's what it looks like when it blows in the breeze.

So it is attractive to some people, yes.

So, if you have planted it or you think it's in your garden bed, do not pull it out.

Do not eat it.

<Oh, don't?> Wait for us to come and assess the situation because we will remove it for free.

Amanda> So you're afraid that if we tried to do it ourselves, we might just scatter it or make it even worse?

Caroline> So, funny that you ask.

Cogongrass is not necessarily moved by the seeds in the seed head.

They're not really viable.

They actually create these really dense root mats, and they are moving around under the soil, through their rhizomes.

So if you pull it out, it's not necessarily gonna do anything, but we can come and treat it.

And that will treat down to the rhizomes.

Amanda> Really?

<Yes> Dang!

And so it's so bad that it's worth y'all doing that?

Caroline> Yeah.

So those dense root mats just kind of don't let any other plants establish or seed.

Yeah.

Very detrimental to gardens.

Amanda> Okay.

Does it show up in, like, more in the Lowcountry or the middle of the state or the Upstate?

Caroline> So right now we're seeing it more in the Lowcountry, up into the Midlands.

And we have some spots here and there in the Upstate, but we're seeing larger infestations down in the Lowcountry.

Amanda> And is it flammable?

Did I remember that?

Caroline> Yes, so the reason why cogongrass is labeled a noxious weed is because it's harmful to our environment, but also it has human impacts.

So, this kind of weed burns really hot and really quickly.

We worry about structures and cars, catching on fire and then also just wildfires in general.

Amanda> Yeah which have been sadly- <Yes, very commonly lately.> Very prominent now.

I mean very prevalent now.

Goodness, cogongrass.

And I guess, is it from Asia?

Caroline> It is.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm sure we've sent things over there too, but... Caroline> Yeah.

We're getting a lot these days.

Amanda> Yeah.

Oh, goodness.

Well, I'm glad you told us.

So don't, if you think you've got it, call y'all up.

<Yes> And don't go out there and try to do it yourself.

Shoo-wee.

Well, thanks, I guess.

Well, we do need to know about that.

It's important.

Caroline> Yes, absolutely.

And some people, you know, they see it and they just think it's another weed.

So it's really important to report so we can tell you yes or no.

Amanda> Okay.

Alright.

Thank you so much.

And then how do we get in touch with you?

Caroline> We have our public reporting tool or you can email us at Invasives@Clemson.Edu.

Amanda> Okay.

That's pretty easy to remember.

Thank you.

Okay, Terasa.

Terasa> Let's see what we have now.

Question from Sumter.

We have Charles, who is having a time with his okra.

He said, "The plants look good, but they're not making any fruit.

Why is this happening?"

Amanda> Gah.

I mean, usually you get so dang much okra you're carrying it to your neighbors.

What's going on?

Brad> Well, I've definitely had that experience where it just, you're just getting buried by okra, you know, and that kind of a thing.

Amanda> Which is not a bad thing.

It's not a bad thing.

I mean, it's good that they're generous and you can get a lot of bang for your buck and that kind of a thing.

You know, without actually seeing, you know, the plants or anything like that.

But, you know, you just kind of assume that, you know, that, okay, we're not seeing any disease issues or any leaf symptoms, we're not seeing any insect issues, that kind of a thing.

And the plants just kind of sit there.

And so you wonder things like, well, you know, could we, you know, do they need a little bump of fertilizer maybe, but at the same time too, some crops just kind of slow down for a period of time.

And I know that we have a guide on ratooning, which is basically about mid-summer, around July-ish, we would cut back these plants pretty significantly and give them a shot of fertilizer and then- Amanda> Like so?

Brad> Yes, and they would start regrowing.

Amanda> Well, and they spread out and then people like me don't have to stand on a ladder.

Brad> Yeah, that too.

And so, you know, a lot of okra varieties, especially the old ones are quite tall.

So being able to get them down in size and that kinda thing is definitely gonna be, you know, useful.

But, you know, if the plants just aren't really growing and that sort of thing, you know, and actually, I had this conversation a while back with one of our commercial hort specialists, and he said that, "Okra has one of these kind of odd little quirks where it will just kind of take a break for a period of time."

And he's gotten several calls, you know, regarding this.

It seems fine, but it just won't produce anything.

He said, "Just give it time.

It'll come out of it.

<Okay> And so, he didn't share, you know, what the cause of it was, but it's just kind of an observed thing that happens from time to time with okra.

And so just be patient, it'll come out of it.

Amanda> Get some that you've frozen and bring it out.

Because it freezes very well, in my opinion.

Well, thanks.

Well, I actually have something I'd like to talk about.

Cause I was looking up, I got a watermelon that had seeds in it, and I was looking at watermelon seeds, and it turns out it's the seventh most nutritious seed in the world, which is stunning.

And they found it in King Tut's tomb.

And, so, you know, for him to take to the afterlife, I guess.

And so, you know, for thousands of years, people have been knowing about watermelon seeds, which I had never in my life thought of.

Terasa> It makes me wonder why, I mean, sunflower seeds are quite popular.

So if there's so much nutrition, why haven't we seen this marketed?

Amanda> Because they're real hard to eat.

I'll give you some in a minute.

<Okay> You just chew and chew and chew and, so I guess, you know, I mean, it's nutritious, but it's not like pumpkin seeds or something like that, that are just so wonderful.

I mean, it's a pretty rough, [chewing noises] you know, chomp.

I don't know, I guess maybe I don't even know, I don't think horses could, anybody could eat it.

But it is interesting that they were grown a lot for the seeds because they were so stunningly nutritious.

I think that's kind of interesting.

I don't know if they could grind them up and maybe do things with them, but I have to look into it more.

But I'll let you try some and you'll chomp and chomp and chomp.

Terasa> Is that all from one watermelon?

Amanda> Oh, you know what?

It was too much trouble, I just ordered some.

[laughter] I mean, picking the seeds, I started trying to do it, but it was just a nuisance, you know?

So, I just ate the heart of the watermelon, and I gave the rest... horses really like watermelon.

So I can take it out to my friends, you know, who has the rescue horse place that we did a story on.

And her horses just love to eat watermelon.

So, and they didn't mind the seeds, how bout that?

So, anyway.

[Amanda chuckles] Anyway, Terasa what else can we do?

Terasa> Gonna do another question.

How about, from Jordan in Ridgeland, "My friend in Ohio was talking about hinge cutting for deer.

What is that, and should I try it on my property, here?"

Amanda> Goodness.

Emily, what's that all about?

Dr.

Belser> Yeah, so hinge cutting is a management practice that some landowners will do to help manage for deer.

So in areas like Ohio or maybe up north or the Midwest where they have really cold winters, they can do hinge cutting.

And what that is, is they take a tree that's maybe two to six inches in diameter, and they cut it all the way through, not quite, maybe 50 to 80 percent through the tree.

And then they fold it over.

And so what it does, is it keeps the tree alive because you still have that bark and cambium layer providing nutrients, but it puts that forage closer to the ground so deer can eat it, they have bedding cover and thermal cover.

And it works really well in areas where they have really harsh winters.

So which trees, I mean, because they have to be evergreen, which ones would you use?

Dr.

Belser> Well, it would be hardwoods.

And it would be something like a black gum or tulip poplar or maples or oaks, obviously not a pine tree.

Because it would probably just snap.

However, I don't know that I would recommend it for South Carolina.

Because we don't necessarily have the harsh winters that they do up north.

And when you do that hinge cutting it, you kind of create a barrier.

So like if you're walking through the woods, as people, it makes it more difficult.

Now you could do it to create some bedding areas, but it's not necessarily necessary down here.

There are better activities that you could do to improve bedding and forage.

Amanda> Well, thank you so much.

Well, winter forages say, you know, in the winter when you go by these beautiful green fields, they are there for a purpose.

And, but you're gonna learn even more because our Forages Agent Nicole Correa's gonna tell us.

> Hi, everyone.

Thank you for joining us today.

My name is Nicole Correa.

I work for Clemson Extension and I am a County Livestock and Forages Agent.

Today I'm here in Richland County talking to Mr.

Kenny Mullis about his cattle operation and also, all of the help that he does with the South Carolina Forage and Grazing Lands Coalition.

Thank you for joining us today, Mr.

Kenny.

How are you?

> I'm doing great.

We're glad you could be here today.

Nicole> Can you talk to us a little bit about your partnerships with Clemson and also with the South Carolina Forage and Grazing Lands Coalition?

Kenny> Sure.

I've always throughout my life worked very closely with Clemson Extension.

They provide a very, valuable resource, technical information on how to do a better job on your farm.

Forage and Grazing Lands Coalition, I'm the current president of that organization.

It's a nonprofit organization.

We provide educational opportunities for producers around the state.

We work very closely with the USDA, NRCS, a good portion of our funding comes from NRCS.

We also work very closely with Clemson Extension, and some other organizations.

Have some joint projects with Clemson.

We help fund a forage demo, demonstrations around the state.

We have a number of Clemson Extension personnel on our board to help us, guide us and help us do a good job.

Nicole> Yes, we sure do.

There's a few of us there.

We've got Dr.

Scharko, Dr.

Silva, Chris LeMaster, Mr.

Brian Beer.

And we appreciate all of the help from South Carolina Forage and Grazing for our demo plots.

I've got one planted in Calhoun County right now.

Can you talk to me a little bit about, some of the... folks that we have behind us?

Kenny> Okay.

These are all steers that I'm finishing for processing.

They're various ages.

Some are getting close to being ready.

Some are still pretty young.

They're predominantly Angus.

Got a little Simmental mixed in, maybe a little Charolais, but they're all black, black steers.

Nicole> Very, very nice.

They're very friendly.

[laughter] Kenny> They like, they like me because they associate me with food.

Nicole> Can you talk to us a little bit about, what the cattle are grazing behind us?

If we're talking about winter grazing and winter demonstrations.

Kenny> Yeah, these are all winter annuals that I had planted back in November.

They were planted a little late because of the drought in the fall.

There's annual ryegrass here.

There is cereal rye, which is a type of grain, but it's a grass as well.

There is, crimson clover, which is a legume which fixes nitrogen in the soil.

And then there are radishes that penetrate the hardpan, and they have deep roots.

They can mine nutrients down from deep in the soil and bring it up where the other, other forages can utilize it.

Nicole> That's fantastic.

So it sounds like planting all four, four different types is very helpful to soil health.

Kenny> It is.

And they kind of complement each other.

The cereal rye comes in early, and it's starting to reach the end of its life right now.

But the ryegrass, is really kicking in and it's a real high nutrient value forage.

And then the crimson clover is, starting to kind of Peter out a little bit too.

Clover and the radishes didn't fare that well this year because of the drought.

And I think, maybe they're getting out competed by some of the, some of the grasses here.

Nicole> Yes, you've got some beautiful- I see a lot of ryegrass here.

I mean, it seems very long to me.

How do you know when to graze it?

Kenny> Typically you want the grasses to get up around eight or ten inches, and then graze them graze about half of that off, so that when they get down to around four or five inches pull them off and move them to the next, next pasture and let that grass recuperate and regrow.

And if you graze it down to close, you won't, you'll kill the grass before it's, before it's intended to die.

Nicole> Okay, so that would be considered overgrazed.

Kenny> Correct.

Nicole> Okay.

Wow, so, I mean, it sounds like what you're doing here is what people like to call "regenerative grazing."

Kenny> Yes, a lot do.

A lot of people call it "regenerative grazing."

Nicole> Okay.

Can you talk to us a little bit about this farm in particular?

You know, is this your family's farm or is it leased land?

Kenny> This is my family farm.

My family's been here since, well before the Civil War.

My daughter lives on this farm.

She's a seventh-generation here.

Sherman's troops actually came through here, during the war and burnt the house that was, that was here.

<Oh, wow> And then, we, my great-grandfather built another house.

It's close by here.

That's been here since the early 1800s.

And we use that house now for, different family functions.

Nicole> Okay.

And has it always been in farmland?

Kenny> It has.

My, grandfather, which is... I have personal knowledge of what he did.

The others, I'm not sure.

But I know he had cotton back when cotton was the big, king, back in the '40s.

And so he, a lot of this land was cleared and planted.

And then after... farming kind of took a lull.

A lot of it was planted in pines.

<Okay> And then some of it has been reclaimed back into pasture land now.

And I'm, actually reclaiming some now around my home.

So, in South Carolina, I know a lot of folks feed hay.

Is there a reason why you would choose to graze the land instead of feeding them hay?

Kenny> Generally grazing is a good bit cheaper than hay when you're, when you're growing hay, you have to have a tractor and you have to bale it, rake it and bale it, and there's a lot of man hours involved.

Here, the animals are doing the harvesting.

So you don't have that, that cost.

And they're also introducing manure and urine back into the soil which is a natural source of fertilizer.

Nicole> Oh that's fantastic.

So what you're saying is, what's best for animal welfare is actually fantastic for the land and for your pocketbook.

Kenny> Correct.

Nicole> Well, thank you again, Mr.

Kenny, for having us today.

We appreciate all of the hard work that you and your family do to, you know, care for these cattle and care for the land around you.

And, we can't wait to come out and visit again in the future.

Kenny> Glad you could make it.

And again, we really appreciate the partnership, working together to try to make things better for South Carolina.

♪ ♪ Amanda> Well, isn't it nice that people plant things that they don't have to go and purchase so that their animals can eat during the winter?

Yeah, good for them.

And it's so pretty.

Terasa?

Terasa> I think there's one more aquatic plant that Caroline would like to share some information about.

Amanda> Okay, we have about a minute left.

Caroline> Yeah so, last year we found a new aquatic weed.

It's called wooly frog's mouth.

Amanda> Great name.

Caroline> Funny, right?

So it was found in the Lowcountry, and the only other place that we have detected it in the U.S.

is North Carolina.

Amanda> Really?

Caroline> Yes.

So, I think this serves as a great reminder to tell everybody, make sure to always clean your boat before you move it.

To never dump aquariums out in open water.

And to always source your bait locally.

We don't want to be moving invasives.

Amanda> Okay, so, if you've gone boating when you get home, wash your boat carefully with water.

And don't carry it to another lake where you might transfer the plant.

<Right> Oh, goodness.

And you know, boating and fishing is so fabulous in South Carolina.

Caroline> They're also very expensive to treat.

Amanda> Ooh la la la la.

Okay, well, thank you all for coming so much.

This was just great.

And learning about quail management and invasives and what we can do to not have it and replacements for boxwood.

I really appreciate it.

Thank y'all.

Okay.

And we thank you for being with us.

We hope you'll join us next time.

Night, night.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.